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Clearly you are not a lawyer
By:ray
Date: 10/12/08 9:35am

First, Queen B...I will simply overlook your rude and ignoarant remarks which are really unnecessary. Second, clearly you did not read the suit or the requests for discovery and how what OBama would ahve had to do here, if done, would actually render him ineligible to be President, or even a US Senator.

For a discussion of waht you speak of, you could have simply referred to the answer by Plaintiff. Here is the text:

Wayne Madsen, Journalist with Online Journal as a contributing writer published
an article on June 9, 2008 stating that a research team went to Mombassa, Kenya, and located a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. to his father, a Kenyan citizen and his mother, a U.S. citizen, attached as EXHIBIT “3”.

Even if Obama was, in fact, born in Hawaii, he lost his U.S. citizenship when his
mother re-married and moved to Indonesia with her Indonesian husband. In or about 1966, when Obama was approximately five (5) years old, his mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia, whom she had met at the Hawaii University, and moved to Indonesia with Obama.

Obama lost his U.S. citizenship, when his mother married Lolo Soetoro, and took up residency in Indonesia. Loss of citizenship, in these circumstances, under U.S. law (as in effect in 1967) required that foreign citizenship be achieved through “application.” Such type of naturalization occurred, for example, when a person acquired a foreign nationality by marriage to a national of that country. Nationality Act of 1940, Section 317(b). A minor child follows the naturalization and citizenship status of their custodial parent. A further issue is presented that Obama’s Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, either signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son or Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama,
giving Obama natural Indonesia citizenship which explains the name Barry Soetoro and
his citizenship listed as Indonesian.

Obama admits in his book, “Dreams from my father” Obama’s memoir
(autobiography), that after his mother and Lolo Soetoro were married, Lolo Soetoro left
Hawaii rather suddenly and Obama and his mother spent months in preparation for their
move to Indonesia. Obama admits when he arrived in Indonesia he had already been enrolled in an Indonesia school and his relatives were waiting to meet him and his mother. Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian State citizen, could not have enrolled Obama in school unless Lolo Soetoro signed an acknowledgement acknowledging Obama as his son, which had to be filed with the Government. Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Obama, as an Indonesian State citizen. Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 Law No. 12 of 2006 dated 1 Aug. 2006 concerning Citizenship of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 9 of 1992 dated 31 Mar. 1992 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie) states in pertinent part, State citizens of Indonesia include: (viii) children who are born
outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who are acknowledged by
father who is Indonesian State citizen as his children and that acknowledgment is made
prior to children reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage; Republic of Indonesia
Constitution 1945, As amended by the First Amendment of 1999, the Second
Amendment of 2000, the Third Amendment of 2001 and the Fourth Amendment of 2002, Chapter X, Citizens and Residents, Article 26 states, “(1) Citizens shall consist of indigenous Indonesian peoples and persons of foreign origin who have been legalized [sic] as citizens in accordance with law. (2) Residents shall consist of Indonesian citizens and foreign nationals living in Indonesia.”

Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once adopted by an Indonesian
citizen, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted
child is given the same status as a natural child, Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.

The laws in Indonesia at the time of Obama’s arrival did not allow dual
citizenship. If an Indonesian citizen married a foreigner, as in this case, Obama’s mother was required to renounce her U.S. citizenship and was sponsored by her Indonesian spouse. The public schools did not allow foreign students, only citizens were allowed to attend as Indonesia was under strict rule and decreed a number of restrictions; therefore, in order for Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, which he did, he had to be a citizen of Indonesia, as the citizenship status of enrolled students was verified with Government records.

Obama was enrolled by his parents in a public school, Fransiskus Assisi School in
Jakarta, Indonesia. Plaintiff has received copies of the school registration, attached as EXHIBIT “4”, in which it clearly states Obama’s name as “Barry Soetoro,” and lists his citizenship as Indonesian. Obama’s father is listed as Lolo Soetoro, Obama’s date of birth and place of birth are listed as August 4, 1961 in Hawaii, and Obama’s Religion is listed as Islam. This document was verified by television show Inside Edition, whose reporter, Matt Meagher, took the actual footage of the school record. At the time Obama was registered the public schools obtained and verified the citizenship status and name of the student through the Indonesian Government. All Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal
names of all family members.

Since Obama’s birth was legally acknowledged by Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian
citizen, and/or Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, which the evidence attached hereto supports, Obama became an Indonesian citizen and bears the status as an Indonesia natural child (natural-born). For this reason, Obama would have been required to file applications with the U. S. State Department and follow the legal procedures to become a naturalized citizen in the United States, when he returned from Indonesia. If Obama and/or his family failed to follow these procedures, then Obama is an illegal alien.

Regardless of whether Obama was officially adopted, (which required a Court
process), by his Indonesian stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, or his birth was acknowledged (which only required the signing of a birth acknowledgement form), by Lolo Soetoro, one of which had to occur in order for Obama to have the name Barry Soetoro and his citizenship status listed as “Indonesian”, in either and/or both cases Obama’s name was required to be changed to the Indonesian father’s name, and Obama became a natural citizen of Indonesia. This is proven by the school records in Jakarta, Indonesia showing Obama’s name as Barry Soetoro and his citizenship as Indonesian. Again, the registration of a child in the public schools in Jakarta, Indonesia was verified with the Government Records on file with the Governmental Agencies.

The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual
citizenship). Indonesian regulations recognize neither apatride nor bipatride citizenship.
In addition, since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship neither did the United States, Hague
Convention of 1930.

In or about 1971, Obama’s mother sent Obama back to Hawaii. Obama was ten
(10) years of age upon his return to Hawaii.

As a result of Obama’s Indonesia “natural” citizenship status, there is absolutely
no way Obama could have ever regained U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact ever held such. Obama could have only become naturalized if the proper paperwork was filed with the U.S. State Department, in which case, Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship.

Plaintiff is informed, believes and thereon alleges Obama was never Naturalized
in the United States after his return. Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to
Hawaii to live with his grandparents. Obama’s mother did not return with him, and therefore, unable to apply for citizenship of Obama in the United States. If citizenship of Obama had ever been applied for, Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship.

Furthermore, Obama traveled to Indonesia, Pakistan and Southern India in 1981.
The relations between Pakistan and India were extremely tense and Pakistan was in turmoil and under martial law. The country was filled with Afghan refugees; and Pakistan's Islamist-leaning Interservices Intelligence Agency (ISI) had begun to provide arms to the Afghan mujahideen and to assist the process of recruiting radicalized Muslim men--jihadists--from around the world to fight against the Soviet Union. Pakistan was so dangerous that it was on the State Department's travel ban list for US Citizens. Non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business. A Muslim citizen of Indonesia traveling on an Indonesian passport would have success entering Indonesia, Pakistan and India. Therefore, it is believed Obama traveled on his Indonesian passport entering the Countries. Indonesian passports require renewal every five (5) years. At the time of Obama’s travels to Indonesia, Pakistan and India, Obama was twenty (20) years old. If Obama would have been a U.S. citizen, which he was not, 8 USC §1481(a)(2) provides loss of nationality by native born citizens upon "taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state...after having attained the age of eighteen years”, in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1401(a)(1) Since Lolo Soetoro legally acknowledged Obama as his son and/or adopted Obama, Obama was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, as proven by Obama’s school record attached as Exhibit “4”.

Messages In This Thread

Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:28pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/13/08 9:00pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/13/08 2:47pm
Hellloooo Raaaayyyy... Are You Out There? LOL :-) *NM* -- Island Girl -- 10/13/08 10:14pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/13/08 1:10pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/13/08 1:27pm
here's his birth certificate -- georgiajan -- 10/12/08 2:40pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:29pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:59pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:57pm
dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- ray -- 10/11/08 10:40pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? -- BMD -- 10/12/08 3:18pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:17pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? Make a deal -- BMD -- 10/12/08 11:53pm
Re: dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- accompong -- 10/12/08 3:04pm
Re: dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:50pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:33pm
Video from Attorney Berg -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:47pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:53pm
Re: his eminence Philip Berg, Esq -- BMD -- 10/12/08 1:56am
Yep...that's him -- ray -- 10/12/08 2:41am
Re: Yep...that's him -- Roger -- 10/12/08 3:08pm
LOL Roger -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:33pm
Re: LOL Roger -- Roger -- 10/13/08 3:01pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:00pm
Nothing to do with the thread *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:05pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:12pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:15pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:22pm
LOL ROGER - TOO FUNNY! *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:24pm
Get a clue, Ray -- Anne -- 10/11/08 6:58pm
Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:04pm
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Eagles -- 10/12/08 9:33am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:36am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Eagles -- 10/13/08 8:35am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Roger -- 10/12/08 3:31pm
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/12/08 7:18pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Jenny Shreve -- 10/11/08 6:55pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:00pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- queenb -- 10/11/08 11:07pm
Clearly you are not a lawyer -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:35am
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- queenb -- 10/12/08 7:31pm
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- ray -- 10/13/08 12:34pm
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- queenb -- 10/13/08 7:51pm
blah blah blah *NM* -- NancyJ -- 10/12/08 4:00pm
LOL...you guys really are funny! *NM* -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:34pm
Re: Inside Edition ? -- BMD -- 10/12/08 3:16pm
LOL...I quoted who? -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:43pm
Re: Just remember... -- Islander1 -- 10/12/08 10:10am
LOL...mi belly hurts -- ray -- 10/12/08 7:44pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Cheyenne -- 10/11/08 11:57pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 8:03pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Cheyenne -- 10/12/08 9:54am
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 8:05pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:03pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:06pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:15pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- IHR -- 10/11/08 7:31pm
LOL Roger...Too funny *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:30pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:30pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:37pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:42pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:57pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:06pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:09pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:31pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:36pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:40pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:44pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- accompong -- 10/11/08 6:54pm
Kindly delete personal insulting post -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:13pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:22pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:29pm
LOL...okay Roger...too funny *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:34pm
if that's not the pot calling the kettle black!--- -- Papi------WebKitFormBoundaryxmUxjSk7m7mYDY+m------ -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
papi..... -- Sis Irijah -- 10/12/08 6:41am
Re: if that's not the pot calling the kettle black -- queenb -- 10/11/08 11:09pm
some obnoxious thing -- papi -- 10/12/08 8:40am
correct Papi -- NancyJ -- 10/11/08 8:08pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:07pm
Re: Obama perhaps able to be president -- BMD -- 10/11/08 9:57pm
Re: Obama perhaps able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:43am
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:33pm