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Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer
By:ray
Date: 10/13/08 12:34pm
In Response To: Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer (queenb)

Again, clearly you are not a lawyer and should not try to play one as your analysis is flawed as it is not complete. First, if Obama was born in Kenya, research the common knowledge as to what the law was in effect at the time of his birth born to only one parent who is a United States citizen. That law would make Obama a non-citizen only able to be naturalized later which would not make him elligible for the Presidency. And if the story of his being born in Kenya is true, depending on how importatn it was to his mother that Obama be a US citizen, she may have had very good reason to perpetrate a frau as to the actual birthplace. So there is a very real possible motive and I would argue that many a parent would commit such a frau wanting their child to hae a US Citizen. In fact, many a parent had done pretty crazy things to get their children US Citizenship.

Second, you assume that this subsection you citeof the Code would apply and it very well could. Perhaps your analysis is correct as to the adoption, EXCEPT that it is possible that the subsection you state does not apply whcih is clearly why Berg brought up the travel to the Islamic countries at the age of twenty which may be that he could only achieve by a voultnary act of remunciation. Specifically, the travel issue may make subsections 1 and 2 applicable as an act of voluntary renuciation on his part.

I porvide SOMEONE ELSE'S analysis in this repsect to show that the issue is not as clear as you suggest and why it is that Berg raised the issue in his pleadings:

The issue that seems to have fallen to the back burner is the fact that Obama traveled to Indonesia, Pakistan, and Southern India in 1981. If the US State Department placed a "travel ban" for American citizens, then, if Obama was a citizen, he violated State Department restrictions. So, the only way he could have traveled to Pakistan would be to use another travel document. He couldn't have used an American passport, without an Embassy sponsorship. And the State Department would not allow travel to Pakistan for non-Muslims or persons without a familial relation. Obama was only about 20 years old at the time. He doesn't have any family from Pakistan, and he denies that he is a Muslim. Therefore, he wouldn't have been granted permission to travel to those locales. But, He would not have had any difficulty to travel to those locations if he used an Indonesian passport, which he would have possessed if he held Indonesian citizenship, which violates 8 USC §1481(a)(2), which provides for the loss of nationality by native born citizens upon "taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state...after having attained the age of eighteen years”, in violation of 8 U.S.C. §1481(a)(1). If he was 20 years old, and he was an American citizen, then he ultimately negated his citizenship by making a foreign allegiance to the Indonesia State, thereby making him ineligible for the Office of President.

Perhaps this is why Obama is refusing to come clean? Maybe there is nothing to the citizenship issue but he had to claim to be a Muslim to travel with his friends in which case he committed a federal offense. Or, alternatively, he was a Muslim at the time and has been lying all thorughout the elections. Obviously he doesn ot want to disclose the actual facts of the allegations in the case. There are several questions involved. This attorney really did his homework and may very well sustain the minimum requirements to have this case go forward. I doubt highly that anything will be resolved before the election and if facts come out after the fact that alleges there are issues, not only will we have a constituional crisis but there could also be an issue that he committed fraud in his candidacy hiding facts that would have changed voter's opinion.

In the end, I can only hope that if this is not resolved prior to the eelction either way, that there is not a case here or that there was deception on Obama's part in some resepct as it would be terrible for this country and deepen the divide that has occurred since he entered the race.

Messages In This Thread

Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:28pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/13/08 9:00pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/13/08 2:47pm
Hellloooo Raaaayyyy... Are You Out There? LOL :-) *NM* -- Island Girl -- 10/13/08 10:14pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/13/08 1:10pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/13/08 1:27pm
here's his birth certificate -- georgiajan -- 10/12/08 2:40pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:29pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:59pm
Re: here's his birth certificate -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:57pm
dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- ray -- 10/11/08 10:40pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? -- BMD -- 10/12/08 3:18pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:17pm
Re: Burden of Proof ? Make a deal -- BMD -- 10/12/08 11:53pm
Re: dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- accompong -- 10/12/08 3:04pm
Re: dISCOVERT REQUESTS REFUSED -- Roger -- 10/12/08 2:50pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:33pm
Video from Attorney Berg -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:47pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:53pm
Re: his eminence Philip Berg, Esq -- BMD -- 10/12/08 1:56am
Yep...that's him -- ray -- 10/12/08 2:41am
Re: Yep...that's him -- Roger -- 10/12/08 3:08pm
LOL Roger -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:33pm
Re: LOL Roger -- Roger -- 10/13/08 3:01pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:00pm
Nothing to do with the thread *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:05pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:12pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:15pm
Re: Nothing to do with the thread -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:22pm
LOL ROGER - TOO FUNNY! *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:24pm
Get a clue, Ray -- Anne -- 10/11/08 6:58pm
Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:04pm
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Eagles -- 10/12/08 9:33am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:36am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Eagles -- 10/13/08 8:35am
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- Roger -- 10/12/08 3:31pm
Re: Don't kill the messenger -- ray -- 10/12/08 7:18pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Jenny Shreve -- 10/11/08 6:55pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:00pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- queenb -- 10/11/08 11:07pm
Clearly you are not a lawyer -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:35am
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- queenb -- 10/12/08 7:31pm
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- ray -- 10/13/08 12:34pm
Re: Clearly you are not a lawyer -- queenb -- 10/13/08 7:51pm
blah blah blah *NM* -- NancyJ -- 10/12/08 4:00pm
LOL...you guys really are funny! *NM* -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:34pm
Re: Inside Edition ? -- BMD -- 10/12/08 3:16pm
LOL...I quoted who? -- ray -- 10/12/08 6:43pm
Re: Just remember... -- Islander1 -- 10/12/08 10:10am
LOL...mi belly hurts -- ray -- 10/12/08 7:44pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Cheyenne -- 10/11/08 11:57pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 8:03pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Cheyenne -- 10/12/08 9:54am
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 8:05pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:03pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:06pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:15pm
Re: Obama perhaps not able to be president -- IHR -- 10/11/08 7:31pm
LOL Roger...Too funny *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:30pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:30pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:37pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:42pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:57pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:06pm
Re: Obam perhaps not able to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:09pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:31pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:36pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 6:40pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:44pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- accompong -- 10/11/08 6:54pm
Kindly delete personal insulting post -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:13pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:22pm
Re: Kindly delete personal insulting post -- Roger -- 10/11/08 7:29pm
LOL...okay Roger...too funny *NM* -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:34pm
if that's not the pot calling the kettle black!--- -- Papi------WebKitFormBoundaryxmUxjSk7m7mYDY+m------ -- 10/11/08 7:19pm
papi..... -- Sis Irijah -- 10/12/08 6:41am
Re: if that's not the pot calling the kettle black -- queenb -- 10/11/08 11:09pm
some obnoxious thing -- papi -- 10/12/08 8:40am
correct Papi -- NancyJ -- 10/11/08 8:08pm
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- ray -- 10/11/08 7:07pm
Re: Obama perhaps able to be president -- BMD -- 10/11/08 9:57pm
Re: Obama perhaps able to be president -- ray -- 10/12/08 9:43am
Re: Obam perhaps not abel to be president -- Roger -- 10/11/08 6:33pm